ANOTHER PIECE OF THIS DADDY WISDOM, SO CALLED, IN RESPONSE TO, "My First Experience with a Younger Man"

The other day, in response to an email exchange with a reader, I received the following email:

I can't tell you how deeply grateful I am for taking the time for your thoughtful and insightful reply.  Please feel free to print everything I wrote to you as well as your response.  I'm facing a dilemma that I wonder how you would resolve: should I contact him and try to set up a face-to-face meeting with him shortly before I move away to ask him what happened and why he ran away from me and our budding relationship?  Or would that be too much for him to handle, so that--out of love for him--i should just leave without contacting him?  I don't know how to answer this question.  On the one hand, I have no hope of being able to change his mind since i believe the only way he was able to resolve the ambivalence in his heart about our relationship was to cut me out of it; on the other hand, I wonder if there is anybody else in his life who can pose some questions or say certain things that might be important for him to hear as we both move forward with our independent lives.  Like I said, my love for him is not selfish: although I am in love with him and would stop at nothing to be able to have him in my life, my love for him as an independent person is far greater than my being in love with him in a selfish sense.  I truly love this man, but fear he is a "lost boy" without even many good gay friends.  I should add that, at 30, this man still lives with his parents and when he goes out to a gay bar, he goes out with his straight friends.  I don't know how many past relationships or sexual encounters he's ever had.  But i don't think he has very experienced on this front.  Again, thank you ever so much for talking with me.  I am so in need of helpful wisdom and guidance here.

If, dear readers, you find yourself interested, please see my response below.

Reader, you are most welcome.  It is my role as, 'Daddy' to provide help and support when needed.  It comes with the territory.  I am always happy to help.

As to your dilemma, I see nothing wrong with reaching out to him. Perhaps a text or an email, so he doesn't feel like you are stalking him.  I know that sounds passive, but your situation with him is tenuous as it is.  Back in the old days, I taught safe sex and dating workshops for a local AIDs organization.  One of the issues we talked about is, 'what to do if he says no.'  Or, like in this case, 'what to do if he says nothing.'  While it may not feel like it, trust me, I've been there, he really doesn't owe you a response.  Nobody does.  It is polite, sure, and we all wish the guys in whom we are interested would provide such a response.  Alas, it rarely happens.  But, expecting someone to 'owe' you a response, or a response of a specific kind, will likely result in you being disappointed.  As I said in my last note, whatever is going on in his head is about him.  It isn't likely about you.  All you are doing is torturing yourself by continuing to wonder why. Will it be worse to wonder in silence?  Or, if you reach out once again, and still nothing happens. Did he get my message?  If so, why is he taking so long to respond?  How does he feel?  What do I do next?  Are you prepared to put yourself through that additional torment?

And what if he does respond?  You can certainly offer to be friend/adviser/mentor.  That is what older dudes do.  That said, are you prepared for all that will go along with such an offer?  If you open the door, he may just walk through it.  Are you prepared to help him come out?  Will you feel paternal and glad to give advice when he starts talking to you about other guys he is dating or f*cking?  Will you secretly keep the door open to him, hoping he'll change his mind?  If so, how will that impact your ability to move on and date someone else? Only you can answer these questions.  I suggest you think about the potential answers to them, before you take another action.  Only you can decide what is right for you.

Of course you care for him.  And you care about what happens to him.  This desire to provide love, guidance, advice, mentorship is all a part of playing the roll of 'Daddy.' I write about my own experience providing this kind of support with no expectation of return admiration in,

'BEING, 'DADDY', THE HARDEST JOB YOU'LL EVER LOVE.'

I care about each and every young man I've ever 'daddied.'  This is true whether our relationship was serious, frequent, infrequent, casual, or just a one-time event.  But, like a mother bird nurturing her young, a Daddy needs to know and accept when it is time for the lad to fly away. It is just as much a part of the job, as all the other stuff.  That is what makes it so tough.

It is this ability to care, the ability to be a Daddy, which makes you a catch.  You have love to give.  You just need to find someone who will appreciate that love.  Love comes in many, MANY different ways.  But like everything, love has its costs.  I just think we need to be willing to continue to accept the costs, otherwise we die inside. 

At least, that is what THIS DADDY thinks.

A PIECE OF THIS DADDY WISDOM, SO CALLED, IN RESPONSE TO, "My First Experience with a Younger Man"

I have to admit, boys and girls, that I love getting contacted by my readers.  Comments, emails sent directly to me, etc.  I enjoy them all.  So, please feel free to write any time.

Today I received the following email from a kind reader:

I have been reading your blog on inter-generational relationships between gay men.  I recently had such an experience myself; see attached.  Feel free to print it in your blog if you wish.  At any rate, I'd appreciate whatever insight and wisdom you can offer me on this situation. 

The attachment contained the following:

  

“My First Experience with a Younger Man”This summer I dated a man 28 years younger than I am (I am 58, he is 30).  We met on a website for older-younger gay men seeking one another.  We dated for two months.Upon first meeting, both of us found the other incredibly attractive and we kissed very passionately.  On our second date, I explained that I’d soon be moving to another state and asked if that might be a reason for not wanting to date me.  He said, “No, it wasn’t” and he even told me that he had applied for a job in the state to which I was moving, that he was eager to move away, and that it was possible for us to move away together if things developed well between us. On that same date he asked me if I’d be monogamous in marriage. The look in his face seemed to suggest that he was falling for me.  We continued to go out, and each time we enjoyed ourselves immeasurably.  A few weeks later he told me that he was thinking of ours as a serious long-term relationship.  Although we never had sex, there was a lot of hugging, kissing, and holding hands between us.  It was more romantic than sexual between us.I had never had so much fun dating someone before.  I also had never felt such sweetness and tenderness between another man and me in a dating relationship before.  And each time we were together it was obvious that he was experiencing much joy and happiness in my presence.  He was like a flower blossoming in front of me.  And the more I got to know him, the more I could imagine him as my partner for life.What eventually became clear, however, was that he felt some ambivalence about our relationship he hadn’t been sharing with me.  He broke two of our dates at the last minute, but I learned about these cancellations only because I had contacted him to ask about our plans, not because he had taken the initiative to contact me.  I told him we needed to talk.When we got together, he said he wasn’t ready to be in a relationship. Moreover, he told me that he was not in love with me and had never been in love with anyone before.  Although he said he didn’t want to lose me altogether and hoped we could remain friends, I have never heard from him again.  I am experiencing great sadness as a result.  I not only fell in love with him but also I deeply love him.  That is to say, I care about his well-being even if that doesn’t include me.  I told him this after he told me that he wasn’t ready for a relationship.  I don’t call since I know he doesn’t want to hear from me.  I wish I could understand what happened inside of him and why he ran away from me and from what we had been developing since it seemed so beautiful and loving. If any of you with greater experience and wisdom can offer me some help, I’d appreciate hearing what you have to say. "

 

If, dear readers, you find yourself interested, please see my response below.

  
(Insert name here), thank you very much for taking the time to write.  Without any identifying information, chance are (unless you strenuously object), your email and my response will appear on my blog.

Rather than recreate the wheel in responding, I am going to share a posting I wrote long ago on this topic.  If you've read it already, please forgive me for repeating myself.  I'll add some additional comments after the post.  I've highlighted the section of the post most pertinent to our discussion in bold and in green.

Tuesday, December 28, 2010

NOTE TO DADDIES #3: HUNTERS HAVE THEIR OWN ISSUES AND INSECURITIES.

This, dear Daddy brothers, seems obvious. And yet, often when chatting with other Daddies, I hear them express their frustrations at their dealings with the Hunters in their lives. I hear concerns expressed about their beau’s level of maturity, range of common sense, and even, sometimes, lowered levels of self esteem. Younger guys, especially much younger guys, are naturally going to bring a unique set of issues into any relationship. Many, as did many of us, suffer from what I like to call, “The Lost Boy Syndrome”. Being gay, they may never have grown up in regards to dating and romance. While young, they weren’t afforded the opportunity to learn some of the most basic romance-related skills that straight folk learn as they develop, or that older Daddies have learned, having dated for many years. They didn’t get to have their first kiss at 16. They didn’t have notes passed around in middle school, at least not by those they wished were doing so, talking about how cute they are. So, suddenly they find themselves at 25 having their first ‘crush’; or, at 29, having their first ‘serious’ relationship, dealing with all the feelings and reactions which result from these ‘firsts’ can be quite difficult. Like having the measles, experiencing this stuff as an adult, is much worse than at 16. I am often shocked, shocked, I tell you, to chat with some hot, HOT, and I do mean, HOT Hunter, only to hear him express doubts about his attractiveness, or worry that he’ll never find love. Not all Hunters have issues like these, of course, but some, perhaps many do. Part of our ‘job’ as Daddies is to recognize that as hot as they may be, as mature as they may seem, they are, in many ways, still ‘boys’. Which, after all, isn’t that one reason why we love them so? It is our job to be patient, supportive, and loving. If we can learn to do these things, the Hunters in our lives will be much happier and therefore, and so will we. And isn’t that life is all about?

In your message, you don't tell me much about the young man.  You also don't say anything your own romantic experience.  So I could be completely off base in my response(s) and may make some unwarranted assumptions. If so, let me apologize up front. You said the two of you didn't have sex.  Does that mean he was a virgin? If so, that ads an extra layer of complexity to an already complicated scenario.  Perhaps he just had a serious case of the Lost Boy Syndrome?

In my many years of dating, I've seen this type of behavior time and time again.  I can't explain why it happens, but it is pretty common.  So the behavior is common, the reasons behind it not very understandable.  You know what I mean, you meet someone, have a few frantic embraces and suddenly he is talking about 'this' in terms of 'this' being the makings of a relationship.  Maybe it is in the morning after a one-night stand (man, I don't think I've done one of those in over a decade). Maybe it is during a second 'date.'  Suddenly, you find yourself totally taken by surprise by an ardent suitor, talking about a 'future.'  He seems honest and sincere.  His apparent honesty and sincerity impresses you, so you find yourself caught up in it.  The next thing you know, he isn't returning your calls.  I've never understood it, or been able to explain why guys do this sort of thing, but it isn't an uncommon behavior. 

To me the fact that so early in your 'relationship' (on the second date) he was making comments along the lines you stated below (ex:.."he even told me that he had applied for a job in the state to which I was moving, that he was eager to move away, and that it was possible for us to move away together if things developed well between us."  And, "On that same date he asked me if I’d be monogamous in marriage."), clearly indicates a lack of maturity in relationships.

This could also be an example of what I call a, 'cruise ship romance.'  You know what I mean, you go on a business trip, or some other sort of outing with a bunch of folks you barely know, maybe like your choir trip or senior trip back in high school.  Away from home, with things out of the norm in common, engaging in a shared experience, in quick order you develop very unexpected, intense friendships, relationship, and connections. These last only as long as does the event.  Plans are made to stay connected after the event.  Like the end of a cruise, once you return to dry land, however, real life intrudes, and all of those sincere intentions of a continued connection fall away.

Perhaps, like that moment a first time parachutist steps up to the door of the plane, having fully intending to jump, having been trained and received encouragement to do so.  When faced with the reality of the jump, suddenly the realization dawns that S/he can't go through with it.   

We all want to believe in the concept of 'love at first sight.'  And it certainly happens.  But, more often relationships 'develop' a lot slower than does the fire of passion.  If he was a virgin, or was seriously lacking in dating experience, like any novice, he wouldn't have the skills and tools available to truly evaluate his feelings.  He'd also not possess the ability to understand how his words and actions might be affecting you.  As older men, we take in what people say and how they say it in a vastly different way from someone of a later generation.  Words literally mean different things to us.  There is also a very different way in which folks of his generation (Millennial) perceive relationships.  They see nothing wrong with ending the romantic portion of a relationship and then carrying on as friends. The whole thing is very lesbian.  You KNOW how are those guys. Millennials believe in 'starter' marriages. 

If as he stated, he'd never been in love before, he'd not have really been able to tell if what he was feeling for you was 'love.'  Most folks don't really appreciate what they've lost, until its gone.  With perspective comes knowledge.  Unfortunately we'll never know his reasons.  Maybe someone talked him out of what he was feeling.  There is a lot of peer pressure, for example, on younger guys NOT to date older guys.  My Marine recently came out as 'bi' to a group of strangers with whom he was serving on a temporary assignment.  This being his first time to openly talk about dating a guy, he showed one of the other LGBT folks my picture.  The first thing that guy said was, 'couldn't you date someone your own age?'  My Marine turns 27 in a couple of weeks. I turn 53 a couple of weeks after that.

I think what you need to take away from this experience is:

1) Love is possible at any age.

2) You are clearly still capable of feeling and experiencing it.

3) There are guys out there who find you appealing.

4) It is vastly better to have had this happen BEFORE you moved away and set up housekeeping.

5) He wasn't the right guy, or at least not the right guy at the right time, for you. That doesn't mean a right guy is just around the corner.

It may sound trite, but chances are whatever caused him to end your relationship had everything to do with him, his issues, and his situation and very little to do with you.  It is hard to understand that in the moment, but most often that turns out to be true.  

At least, that is what THIS DADDY thinks.

The Temptations - Some Enchanted Evening (1995)
From the Motown CD: For Lovers Only

Boytoy? For the Boys in the Crowd...

 

Freaking Out About Age Gaps in Gay Relationships Is Homophobic

BOYTOY 

The Daily Beast

01.09.15

by Samantha Allen

 

In straight relationships with an age gap, words like ‘gold-digger’ and ‘trophy wife’ get thrown around. When it’s a gay relationship, those words change to ‘pedophile’ and ‘pervert.’

When news broke earlier this week that British actor and comedian Stephen Fry, 57, is now engaged to 27-year-old comedian Elliot Spencer, homophobic social media users suddenly decided they should try to be comedians, too. There have already been innumerable and equally unfunny variations on the joke that Spencer looks young enough to be Fry’s son, as Hannah Jane Parkinson relays on the Guardian. (And yes, someone has already called Spencer a “Small Fry,” har har.) The Internet reaction took an even darker turn when “Stephen Fry disgusting” reportedly trended on Twitter for a brief time following the announcement.

In the media, the couple’s age gap has been treated less like a scandal and more like a spectacle, with headlines predictably highlighting Spencer’s youth. The major outlets have remained more or less respectful beyond these gawking headlines but, as the Advocate reports, tabloid and entertainment sites have taken a more sensationalistic approach which has only been amplified by their comments sections, where people have been calling Fry a “pedophile,” a “pervert,” and a “dirty old man.” As for Spencer, the British tabloid that leaked the news referred to him as a “toyboy,” which, to be honest, would make a great novelty license plate for the Aston Martin that Fry lent him if he’s ever in the mood to reclaim the insult.

If it’s not obvious by now, the outsized reaction to Fry and Spencer’s age gap is deeply homophobic. Plenty of straight men—especially famous straight men—have wives that are decidedly their juniors: Harrison Ford is 22 years older than Calista Flockhart, Michael Douglas is 25 years older than Catherine Zeta-Jones, and Clint Eastwood is a whopping 35 years older than his ex-wife. George Clooney’s paramours, too, have waxed ever younger over the years. Sure, these Hollywood May-December relationships are surrounded by plenty of hubbub about “trophy wives” and “gold-digging,” but no one thinks that Clint Eastwood is a pedophile just because he married a much younger woman. However much we gossip about heterosexual couples with large age gaps, we at least refrain from calling them sex offenders.

The news of Fry’s engagement, on the other hand, has done nothing but stoke the flames of a particularly virulent brand of homophobia that sees male homosexuality as a synonym for pedophilia and pederasty. University of California at Davis psychology professor Gregory M. Herek has meticulously documented (and discredited) the history of this unfounded association. In 1970, Herek reports, over 70 percent of respondents to a national survey agreed with the statement: “Homosexuals are dangerous as teachers or youth leaders because they try to get sexually involved with children.” In the 70s, this myth kept openly gay people out of teaching positions. In the 90s, it kept gay men out of leadership roles in the Boy Scouts of America. Today, it continues to circulate freely on the far Right. Even the tired old yarn about homosexuality being just a stone’s throw away from bestiality got some recent attention when Duck Dynasty’s Phil Robertson said as much during an interview with GQ.

Harrison Ford is 22 years older than Calista Flockhart, Michael Douglas is 25 years older than Catherine Zeta-Jones, and Clint Eastwood is a whopping 35 years older than his ex-wife.

But you don’t have to be an ideologue for the decades-long association between homosexuality and child sexual abuse to shape your thinking. When Bradley Cooper, now 40, started dating the now 23-year-old model Suki Waterhouse, the Daily Mirror called them “the sweetest celebrity couple ever” and repeated the old adage that “age is but a number.” This same outlet worked the phrase “engagement to toyboy lover” into the headline of their article on Fry. What happened to true love knows no boundaries and all that? Cooper had to put up with some gentle ribbing when he started dating Waterhouse but now that Fry has come out as the fiancé of a 27-year-old, he has to face down a half century of sedimented sexual suspicion. No one has to outright call him a pedophile for the old myths about gay men to do their work, they just have to not call his relationship “the sweetest celebrity couple ever” and 50 years of conservative scare tactics will do the heavy lifting anyway. And while we’ve probably moved past the point where most people would honestly think of Fry as a sex offender—according to Herek’s report, those percentages were looking a lot slimmer by the year 2000 and they’ve likely fallen since—that doesn’t mean that he and Spencer are immune from being endlessly psychoanalyzed for their age difference.

My friend Jeremiah Bratton, who co-hosts the gay video gaming podcast Gaymebar, is familiar with all of the stereotypes that surround gay men who date across an age divide. His partner is 16 years his senior and he has heard it all. Without missing a beat in our phone conversation, Bratton can perfectly mirror the sort of pop-Freudianism that outsiders bring to bear on his situation: “They look at me and [according to them] I have daddy issues and [my partner] is a pedophile. I’m a child from an early divorced family and my father was never around and I was raised by my mother so, if I was straight, I’d be dating my mother but now I’m looking to have sex with the father I never had.” And then he finally takes a breath.

For his part, Bratton is disappointed but not surprised that the same narrative is already being mapped onto Fry and Spencer. He likewise observes that straight men like, say, Billy Bob Thornton receive nowhere near the degree of push back that Fry is facing when they wed their much-younger lovers.
“It’s scandalous but it’s not disgusting,” he says. “And [the controversy] doesn’t last as long. It doesn’t seem to stick.”

When Bradley Cooper, now 40, started dating the now 23-year-old model Suki Waterhouse, the Daily Mirror called them “the sweetest celebrity couple ever” and repeated the old adage that “age is but a number.”

But while the media is busy rubbernecking at Spencer’s youth, few gay eyebrows seem to be rising, likely because large age gaps are relatively common among same-sex couples. A Facebook study from last year found that both gay and lesbian couples tend to have much higher age gaps than their heterosexual counterparts with the difference—or the age gap gap—widening as people leave college and start new relationships in adulthood. The reasons for a gay age gap are as varied as the couple. For some, it’s about finding stability and maturity. For others, it’s simply about accepting love wherever you find it.

Whatever the reason, people in same-sex couples are already living their lives orthogonal to one major taboo, so what’s another one at the end of the day? To gay, lesbian, and bisexual people, the oft-whispered heterosexual rule that older partners should date someone who is at least half their age plus seven years feels weird and arbitrary. In fact, one popular lesbian blogger jokingly suggested that the equivalent rule for same-sex couples should be “one-third your age plus ten years.”

Even using that generous formula, Fry and Spencer’s age difference still seems quite large but it’s certainly not unheard of nor is it unacceptable. June Thomas at Slate has a better guideline: “As long as everyone involved in a relationship is a responsible, mature adult, arithmetic should play no role in deciding a couple’s compatibility.” Sure, a 30-year age difference is nothing to sneeze at and, like any couple with that size gap, Fry and Spencer will have to do some extra work to make their lives coalesce across their generational divide. But that’s their business as consenting adults and not anyone else’s. Spencer is plenty old enough to know what he’s getting himself into and, in all likelihood, he’s thrilled to have landed one of the savviest, smartest, and funniest men in Britain.

Or, as Bratton put it between bursts of laughter after learning Spencer’s age: “I’m sorry. He’s not even ‘chicken’ anymore. Twenty-five is the absolute breaking point for homosexual adolescence. You’re done. You’re old now and you’re lucky you’ll get a man. Between 25 and 30, you’re trying to decide how much longer before you start growing a beard and calling yourself ‘Daddy.’”

And while we often highlight the difficulties of relationships that take place across large age gaps, we hardly spend any time at all looking for their beauty. With Fry and Stephen, there’s plenty of beauty to be found. Two handsome, funny, and well-dressed men—one late in his career, the other early on—holding hands in public while beaming from ear to ear? Whatever their ages, whatever their orientations, that’s sweet no matter what anyone else thinks.

Two adults falling in love and deciding to declare their love through marriage.  Isn't that a most natural thing?

At least, that is what THIS DADDY thinks.

The Old Sailor and the Young Marine

There once was a grizzled, old sailor.

Cynical and cranky, one day the old sailor met a young Marine.
 
The young Marine was virile, brave and stalwart.
 
With eyes as blue as sapphires and a smile as bright as the sun, the young Marine entranced the old sailor.

Thought to have a heart as cold as ice, the older became smitten, his heart melting like chocolate in a heated pot.

Then the young Marine went far away, to serve the country he loves.
 
Upon arriving in the far away land, leading by example, the young Marine made life tough for the younger Marines with whom he served. They, the younger Marines, called him many names and thought of the old sailor's young Marine as a hardass.

While it was true that the young Marine had a hard ass, round, firm, beautiful and tight, as the old sailor knew, it was not that he was a hardass, rather the young Marine cared deeply about his subordinates and therefore he was tough on them for their own good. So that when tested in battle, they would be thoroughly tested.


While the old sailor was left lonely and horny and his missed the young Marine intensely, he was very proud of his young Marine, and his service and happy to have the young Marine in his heart, no matter might the future bring for them both.

To be continued?  Who knows?  Likely the story of the old sailor and the Young Marine will not have a happy ending.  But, hopefully both will feel the time they shared was special, however long it might last.

At least, that is what THIS DADDY thinks.